277VAC Z-Wave Light Switch

[GadgetGuy]

I'm looking for a 277VAC Z-Wave light switch for an office application. The fluorescent lights are not dimmable, so this needs to be a switch and not a dimmer. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Del91574]

I think you're going to need to use a controllable contactor and not a switch.

 

[LarrylLix]

Are zWave devices in Europe using the same frequency for comms? Europe may have switches that would operate in that range.

 

[Del91574]

And EU uses a different switch, box and plate configuration and are generally 240VAC.......not to mention they'd be designed for half the amperage or total wattage and generally for a 50HZ signal.
 
I don't see 277 listed anywhere here:
http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/
 
Good way to burn down a house Larry.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'm surprised that this type of switch is not available. With IoT vendors trying to penetrate the office market, you would think this woud be on their radar.
 
Here's the response I received from Leviton: "Thank you for choosing Leviton, sorry but we do not offer a Z-wave switch in that configuration."

 

[Del91574]

Zwave is too limited to fit into a commercial enviroment. Range would be the largest limiting factor. Second would be the adoption or installation of a completely foreign system to what the IoT would be. BAS systems don't talk in unique protocols. It's usually either BACNET, Lonworks or N2. Going into a completely different protocol and communications method via a proprietary chipset would be akin to commercial suicide for the integrator and installer. It would also involve a ton of variables for the control portion....and the end result is it's easier to control the loads through a BAS and retrofit one than install single modules, switches and outlets in about 95% of the market.
 
Also, how a commercial structure is wired and controlled is an entirely different beast compared to a home (albeit a small strip mall could be compared).

 

[GadgetGuy]

Zwave is too limited to fit into a commercial enviroment. Range would be the largest limiting factor. Second would be the adoption or installation of a completely foreign system to what the IoT would be.

I think your making some assumptions that are incorrect.
 
This application is a small office suite in a larger office building that just happens to use 277VAC lighting throughout. We have an Omnipro II and need to control the main office lighting (entrance, hallway, etc.) which is controlled by a single switch.
 
Leviton makes several Z-Wave 277VAC dimmers. The problem is they don't make a simple switch.
 
Also, IoT security and automation is making inroads in the commercial SMB office space where complicated BAS installations have not been successful.

 

[Del91574]

No assumptions, you only need to temper the statements. A suite in a larger building is going to pretty much dictate the size of the building, but the larger buildings are most definitely going to have some sort of BAS....the cost savings are too great for a property owner to ignore and allow the lighting in areas to not be turned back or run on motion (general areas, probably not) but HVAC, unless the tennant is assuming their own individual package units and utilities for them, it's foolish to NOT control them.
 
277 has been used in the ceilings for decades. The problem with what Leviton is offering isn't the voltage, the problem is the wattage they support. Might not be a huge issue in a tiny application but for anything with more than a few troffers, it'll be an issue.
 
IoT has a bunch of hurdles before it can be considered to really be viable. Until the main tiers of a building's lifespan and operations can be brought under the same umbrella with all the key players brought in and leveled, it's not going to happen. There's too many things up in the air (security, contracts, hardware, supply chain, interoperability, the list goes on). For a small building and player, it's more straightforward and easy, but to really gain traction in the marketplace, the big BAS guys would need to have a direct integration and support.

 

[ano]

I beleive those Leviton 277V Z-Wave switches (the dimmers) have been discontinued.

 

[LarrylLix]

I take it this must be fed off a 277/480 vac 3phase 4wire system.  Our systems, in Ontario, don't use that voltage level. We use 360/600 for commercial distribution.

 

[LarrylLix]

You may want to have a look at this 240 v contactor for Zwave applications. It would require some cutting in to existing wiring but should get the job done leaving the original switch intact, and allowing Zwave control. Price is really good too.
 

http://store.homeseer.com/store/Intermatic-CA3750-Z-Wave-Contactor-Module-P407.aspx

 

[GadgetGuy]

A suite in a larger building is going to pretty much dictate the size of the building, but the larger buildings are most definitely going to have some sort of BAS....the cost savings are too great for a property owner to ignore and allow the lighting in areas to not be turned back or run on motion (general areas, probably not) but HVAC, unless the tennant is assuming their own individual package units and utilities for them, it's foolish to NOT control them.

 
That's a long sentence, but I'll try to address it.
 
It's a 3 story office building with 12 suites and no BAS.
The common area lighting is controlled with local switch and ceiling motion sensors.
There is central HVAC, but it's independent of any other system.
The lease is gross. All utilities are paid by the building owner.
 

277 has been used in the ceilings for decades. The problem with what Leviton is offering isn't the voltage, the problem is the wattage they support. Might not be a huge issue in a tiny application but for anything with more than a few troffers, it'll be an issue.

 
Sorry but the problem is the voltage. There are plenty of 120VAC Z-Wave switches.
We need a single 270VAC switch to control ten 96W fluorescent light fixtures in the office common area. Any switch should be able to handle 1KW.

 

[RAL]

Sorry but the problem is the voltage. There are plenty of 120VAC Z-Wave switches.
We need a single 270VAC switch to control ten 96W fluorescent light fixtures in the office common area. Any switch should be able to handle 1KW.

 
 
DEL has given you some good reasons why no one makes a switch that meets your needs.  Even though your building may be different, it doesn't mean there is a market for the kind of switch you need.
 
The fact is that it costs more to make the electronic components that can handle higher voltages and currents.  If you look at the specs for the Z-wave switches and dimmers, many can handle just 600W.  So it's just not true that any switch can (or should) handle 1kW.
 
For Leviton to manufacture a higher cost product that can handle those higher voltages and currents, they have to believe there will be enough sales to make a good profit.  Apparently, there isn't.
 
In my opinion, Z-wave today is clearly a consumer/residential product.  It just doesn't have the overall reliability that the commercial space requires.  Look at all the problems that many people here on Cocoontech have getting Z-wave to work well in their homes.  Sure, it works well for some, but not at all for others.  No one in their right mind would want to deal with that hit-or-miss reliability in a commercial environment.
 
I think Leviton is well aware of this and that's why they don't bother.

 

[GadgetGuy]

DEL has given you some good reasons why no one makes a switch that meets your needs.  Even though your building may be different, it doesn't mean there is a market for the kind of switch you need.

 
I welcome any documentation that supports your assertion.
 

For Leviton to manufacture a higher cost product that can handle those higher voltages and currents, they have to believe there will be enough sales to make a good profit.  Apparently, there isn't.
 
In my opinion, Z-wave today is clearly a consumer/residential product.  It just doesn't have the overall reliability that the commercial space requires.  Look at all the problems that many people here on Cocoontech have getting Z-wave to work well in their homes.  Sure, it works well for some, but not at all for others.  No one in their right mind would want to deal with that hit-or-miss reliability in a commercial environment.
 
I think Leviton is well aware of this and that's why they don't bother.

 
Apparently they do bother.
Vizia + 1200VA-277VAC Fluorescent Dimmer
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VPX12-7LZ&section=47398&minisite=10251
Vizia + 6A-277VAC Fluorescent Dimmer
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VPH06-7LZ&section=47398&minisite=10251

 

[RAL]

Apparently they do bother.
Vizia + 1200VA-277VAC Fluorescent Dimmer
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VPX12-7LZ&section=47398&minisite=10251
Vizia + 6A-277VAC Fluorescent Dimmer
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VPH06-7LZ&section=47398&minisite=10251

 
 
Yeah, except those aren't Z-wave dimmers.  And you required a switch, not a dimmer, right? 
 
The VP series devices do target the commercial space. But they notably lack Z-wave support.
 
I wasn't trying to claim that Leviton didn't make any 277 Volt commercial devices, just that they don't seem to bother in the Z-wave switch/dimmer market segment.
.