Soap - Multi-network Android-based router

E

elcano

Active Member
I could not find any reference to this in a quick search:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soaprouter/soap-first-smart-router-w-touch-display-powered-by
 
This is the description of the Home Automation capabilities of the router:
A majority of home automation systems that are available these days typically deem it necessary for you to hold extensive and expert programming knowledge. The worst part about them is that just about anyone can hack them – they aren't safe at all. On the other hand, there’s Soap, which uses the latest communication and safety protocols to allow you to control the garage, lights, locks and all other electronic devices around your place – easy access to your digital home environment is guaranteed! Through it, you would get to acquire all-inclusive home control solutions using:
  • Insteon
  • ZigBee
  • Z-Wave
  • Wemo
  • TCP
  • BLE
  • Vuezone
  • and a lot more
It also says to have many other features, including parental controls, etc.
 
I see it as a risky project, given everything what they are proposing. Actually, they mention several networks: Wifi, Zigbee, Z-Wave, Bluetooth, etc. - but there is no mention on how the software will support them. It is very promising anyway. The screenless version, at $70 for early adopters right now has a fair price even if it only offers the regular router+wifi functionality, so I pledged to it.
 
Actually, according to KickSpy, it looks like the project is well positioned to be funded. It could even reach a 200% funding:
http://www.kickspy.com/projects/soaprouter/soap-first-smart-router-w-touch-display-powered-by
 
You can also see further details on the features at their website: http://imsoap.com
 
It sounds good but I'm seeing some red flags
 
  • They talk about starting their development with and show a picture of an Arduino Uno.  If they really thought they were going to develop a sophisticated router / home automation controller based upon an Arduino, I have to question their design experience
  • They conclude their development with the Wandboard Quad.  The Wandboard Quad sells for $129 without Zwave/Zigbee/Insteon and they are selling theirs with the home automation networks for $70?  Doesn't sound right.
  • There are no pictures of any prototypes connected to more than one Ethernet cable.  Makes me wonder how much of the Ethernet router functionality they have really tested.
  • Some diagrams show 5 Ethernet ports and others show 4.  Their specs show 4 Gigabit ports but do not mention if one of them is WAN and the other three are LAN
  • Securifi is having a hard time getting their similar Almond+ out the door and they already had the experience of developing and selling the original Almond router.  The Soap guys don't list any products they have designed and sold.
  • No mention of Zwave or Zigbee certification and its risk for causing delays to delivery.
  • They make the statement "Soap will work with all the connected devices that you have in your home."  Anybody that has worked with Zwave and Zigbee knows this will be very difficult to achieve.  Companies with much larger budgets have not been able to achieve it.
     

     
 
I'll give them a temporary moment of grace and propose they they are earnest and really want to jump into the home automation thing while money is being spent. ( I mean money on the order of the Nest acquisition. )
 
Their feature set looks like the early stages of a Design Thinking exercise, listing needs and users.
 
Something has to open up this market.
 
I know this product may not apply to my statement; but, I am DONE with Kickstarter!  The two projects I backed have had perpetual delays, then the recent security breach...nothing but trouble IMO!
 
BraveSirRobbin said:
I know this product may not apply to my statement; but, I am DONE with Kickstarter!  The two projects I backed have had perpetual delays, then the recent security breach...nothing but trouble IMO!
Click to expand...
I'm with you on that. People tend to think of Kickstarter as just an on-line store of new products, but the fack of the matter is you are investing in a startup, and their chances of success is sometimes very overstated.  Funding doesn't always equal products and almost never on-time products.
 
BaduFamily said:
Something has to open up this market.
Click to expand...
As someone who has analyzed this area for many years, I will say its still a very tough one.  The people on this board realize the value and have the technical know-how to make it happen, but they are the 1%. Or maybe more correct they are the 0.01%
 
ano said:
People tend to think of Kickstarter as just an on-line store of new products, but the fack of the matter is you are investing in a startup, and their chances of success is sometimes very overstated.  Funding doesn't always equal products and almost never on-time products.
Click to expand...
 
Startups that are funded by the big venture capital firms have around a 25% chance of success.  The startups that are on Kickstarter are the ones that can't or couldn't get funding from a traditional venture capital firm.  Their success rate is likely to be even lower.  I figure 5% is probably about right.
 
What's worse is that even if the product actually delivers, will they be around in 2 years?  For every project on kickstarter, 5 more people show up in the coming months thinking they can do better - and the cycle continues.  I'm sure it's moving innovation forward, but anyone who invests in these projects really should look at it as investing in innovation, not "preordering" good technology.  This isn't like placing your iPhone order 2 months early..
 
Work2Play said:
What's worse is that even if the product actually delivers, will they be around in 2 years?  For every project on kickstarter, 5 more people show up in the coming months thinking they can do better - and the cycle continues.  I'm sure it's moving innovation forward, but anyone who invests in these projects really should look at it as investing in innovation, not "preordering" good technology.  This isn't like placing your iPhone order 2 months early..
Click to expand...
Fully agree on this.
I think that the given the amount of Android developers around, the benefit of a router which also has home automation hardware could be used as a development platform to accelerate the adoption of those HA protocols. This could lower the barrier to entry for developers and probably, even create the critical mass that they need. It would be great being able to download ZigBee apps from the Play Store.

Still, I'm seriously concerned about the stretch goals that they has just announced. I perceive too much unhealthy optimism with those goals*. I already was doubting them having the capacity to deliver practical use-cases (applications) for the home automation modules (in addition to being a good developer, you need extensive Home Automation experience for that), but while they are focused in stretch goals they might under deliver the core routing part too. They might have it running already under ideal conditions, but you cannot say that your product will work until you have *extensively* tested EVERY combination of parameters. Even those features that you think that are not used together. If they fail or just do not work together for obvious reasons, then it should be explained in documentation.
Speaking of documentation, a brief look at DD-WRT shows how much documentation is needed, and that is for the core router only!

I still not sure on how the HA part will work:
1. Will they be driven from client applications running in the router (for the touch) or other android devices? Will any developer be able to create and distribution those? Will those apps be able to do low level networking? Current Android require root for that. I assume Android client apps to be the minimum, functionality. But it would have limited scalability (no iOS or retrofit of existing HA apps).
2. Will they have an API addressable from a client or server application in any other computer? Will this API be published and documented? Will it be compatible with existing APIs for those protocols? I mean...will it be enough just changing the IP address or device ID so that I could start using the router as a gateway into the ZigBee or Insteon network instead of a a stand-alone device? Being able to run with existing HA server applications is essential to true automation. Having a client app to remotely turn off a light is not automation. That is remote control. Automation requires a server recognizing that I do not need the light anymore for me. That runs in server/service mode, and probably is too complex and is better delegated to an existing application.

One thing that could help to generate some trust would be a commitment to release all hardware and software as open source if they reach a situation were they are unable to support their product after launch.

*When you are less experienced you risk being victim of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Where you are unable to judge your own deficiencies and you become overconfident.

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolved-primate/201006/when-ignorance-begets-confidence-the-classic-dunning-kruger-effect

I'm monitoring the project. If my questions are not answered or they continue promising more than what they can demonstrate now as working I might pull my pledge. But I'd hate to do that. I'd really like them to deliver a solid extensible platform.
 
elcano said:
I still not sure on how the HA part will work:
1. Will they be driven from client applications running in the router (for the touch) or other android devices? Will any developer be able to create and distribution those? Will those apps be able to do low level networking? Current Android require root for that. I assume Android client apps to be the minimum, functionality. But it would have limited scalability (no iOS or retrofit of existing HA apps).
2. Will they have an API addressable from a client or server application in any other computer? Will this API be published and documented? Will it be compatible with existing APIs for those protocols? I mean...will it be enough just changing the IP address or device ID so that I could start using the router as a gateway into the ZigBee or Insteon network instead of a a stand-alone device? Being able to run with existing HA server applications is essential to true automation. Having a client app to remotely turn off a light is not automation. That is remote control. Automation requires a server recognizing that I do not need the light anymore for me. That runs in server/service mode, and probably is too complex and is better delegated to an existing application.
Click to expand...
 
I'm trying to flush out how they are going to handle their API as well. They just posted some more information in the comments.  Personally, just like the Almond+, I could really care less about all the extra router functions people are talking about. When you start cramming in every possible function someone can think of the product turns into one of those things were it does everything so-so and doesn't do anything great.
 
I'm looking for something like the Almond+ or Soap that's just the home automation controller so I can just use one hub. I want it wide open that I can connect to it directly without requiring the use of a cloud service (Smartthings).  I wish I could mash all three together.
 
Smarthings - Pro: just home automation, Con: requires cloud
 
Almond+ - Pro: Supposed local "cloud" access to everything directly from the unit, Con: they seem to be struggling delivering the local cloud and they require C/C++ to run apps on the unit, extra router functionality.
 
Soap - Pro: Running on Android and you can load any app (including your own) on it, Con: still waiting to see the API on how to get access, extra router functionality, seems pretty ambitious for people who haven't seemed to have experience in it.
 
Someone please make an open HA controller that can handle a myriad of protocols and let me connect directly to it with a socket and receive notifications from it and send commands to it.
 
I want to get in trouble for advertising our device, but I think the community would love to see what we have up our sleeves. Hey, this is the guys at Soap! We would love to do a Live Q@A or something.
 
Wow, that last post came across wrong...
I meant this as follows... "Hey, this is the guys at Soap! I don't want to get into trouble for advertising our Soap Device without permission, but We would love to do a Live Q@A or something."
Wow, how embarrassing :) I am not an English major just an engineer.
 
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