OmniPro II and Multipurpose Sensor

[GadgetGuy]

Actually there is. The OP II was designed to have many UL approved security zone inputs and temperature inputs and that it it.  It was never designed to accept sensors outside of those.  Could they start from the ground up and redesign their firmware, sure, but you never gave the economic advantage for them to do so.

Again with the UL/safety excuse? What knowledge do you have to backup your claim the this is an issue? How do you know Leviton can't easily add the CentraLite sensor? Or that it's not UL certified (if such a thing even exists for these devices)? Do you work there?

 

[ano]

Do you work there?

Nope  don't and never have worked for Leviton.  But I do own a company, and we don't waste our time doing any work which doesn't increase our revenue. Amazon and Google can do that since they have lots of money rolling in but most companies don't.

 

[RAL]

Again with the UL/safety excuse? What knowledge do you have to backup your claim the this is an issue? How do you know Leviton can't easily add the CentraLite sensor? Or that it's not UL certified (if such a thing even exists for these devices)? Do you work there?

 
I think perhaps you don't understand the UL issue.  There are many, many UL standards - over 1300, in fact.  Electrical equipment often is UL listed as having met the requirements for a number of electrical and fire safety standards.
 
Then, there are various other UL standards that apply to burglar/fire alarms (e.g. UL 1023).  If a system isn't UL listed as meeting these standards, many insurance companies won't accept it.  As a homeowner, that may mean you won't qualify for a discount.  On a commercial property, they may refuse to even write a policy.
 
If Leviton changes any of the hardware or firmware in the OP2, then they have to go through the full testing process to certify that the modified panel still meets the UL standards.  This can be an expensive, months long process.  The more bells, whistles and sensors they add to the mix, the more complex and difficult the testing becomes as the number of combinations of things that can interact increases.
 
From their point of view, they will want to know and understand how much those "improvements" are going to increase sales before they spend the time, effort and money to do the work.  In many cases, it just isn't worth it to them.

 

[GadgetGuy]

 
I think perhaps you don't understand the UL issue.

I'm an electronic design engineer that has done certifications and your understanding of the testing process is incorrect.

 The more bells, whistles and sensors they add to the mix, the more complex and difficult the testing becomes as the number of combinations of things that can interact increases.

They don't have to test every possible combination of devices. It's impossible and unnecessary. They can easily roll these enhancements with the others in the next release.

 

[RAL]

I'm an electronic design engineer that has done certifications and your understanding of the testing process is incorrect.

They don't have to test every possible combination of devices. It's impossible and unnecessary. They can easily roll these enhancements with the others in the next release.

 
I didn't say that they have to test every possible combination.  I simply said more devices increases the combinations of things that can interact, making for more work.  One thing you often can't do is test something in complete isolation, because almost everything interacts with something else.
 
Could it be released with some other code as part of some other release? Possibly.  But that doesn't mean there is no extra work, or that it becomes free.  Doing so would probably lower the pro-rated cost that the new function gets charged against it.  But in most companies that care about profit, the question still is, how much extra revenue will it bring in?  What other work won't get done because someone has to work on this? And what's the risk that it could screw something up?  If all these answers aren't good enough, it doesn't get done.
 
I, too, am an electronic design engineer and have been involved in a good deal of standards testing.  Not specifically for burglar alarm systems, but I'm familiar with the process.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Time will tell if they still have a future in the residential market. Based on the age of the OP 2 and their push into the commercial space with the Lumina Gateway, I think they know the writing is on the wall. The competition for the home from the big boys is just too much.

In the meantime I need to hack something together to monitor a couple of motors. This hobby is getting tiresome.

 

[ano]

Time will tell if they still have a future in the residential market. Based on the age of the OP 2 and their push into the commercial space with the Lumina Gateway, I think they know the writing is on the wall. The competition for the home from the big boys is just too much.

In the meantime I need to hack something together to monitor a couple of motors. This hobby is getting tiresome.

There is no doubt that cloud based security systems, and/or those sold by Internet and cellular companies has taken away business from security systems like the OPII and Elk.  95% of people don't know the differences, and go with what they see advertised on TV, or what's advertised with the insert with their cellular bill.  As I said before, if demand for an updated OPII or ELK was so great, then there would be companies producing them, but demand isn't there.

 

[Del91574]

There is no doubt that cloud based security systems, and/or those sold by Internet and cellular companies has taken away business from security systems like the OPII and Elk.  95% of people don't know the differences, and go with what they see advertised on TV, or what's advertised with the insert with their cellular bill.  As I said before, if demand for an updated OPII or ELK was so great, then there would be companies producing them, but demand isn't there.

Demand is there.....problem is how long it takes to get a new platform or upgraded platform to the market after UL, SIA and others. HAI and Elk are in a tough spot, they are not a mass market install panel and also not a budget panel when it comes to residential. How many people would spring for a panel that can handle 200+ zones when the average install can be accomplished with 48 or so, including RF installs.
 
Think about it.....The OP is about $1.5K as a basic panel to install. The M1 is about $500 (not comparing the limited versions of the platform here). You can get a full 20P for $100-150 all day, and their competitors for the same or sometimes less.

Most dealers are going to install a panel they can get the revenue out of and are familiar with. HAI and Elk just aren't it. You have the big 4.....Ademco (Honeywell), Napco, GE, and DSC (I omitted the oddball Bosch/Radionics and DMP as they require dealerships to install) Each have their pros and cons and price points. In my area, it's commonly Ademco and Napco. You can count the guys that installed HAI or Elk on one hand. Even less for the brands that were out before like Apex and higher end ITI.