Omnipro discontinued

[Dean Roddey]

I wouldn't read too much into that. Things like the Elk aren't like IoTs widgets. They have serious liability issues and such. Unless they have had serious outstanding issue in that time and haven't fixed them, then it may not mean much. If there's nothing broke, with these types of mission critical products, it's probably best not to fix it.

 

[Alezis]

holy smoke... I just finished install a omni pro2 controller with expension last week, there will be main water valve control with 15 water water sensor in the house, garage door control, lutron radio ra2 integration with 100+ loads and drape control ! Today the owner called me and asked me "why did you sell me that HAI stuff ??? it is being discontinued..." I said whaaaat ??? who says that ?? He tells me distributors are warning everybody that omni line is coming to an end... 
 
I cannot beleive this is happening... why oh why a company would buy another brand and let it die... no wait, KILL it... just why ??? what was the purpose of buying HAI then ??? to get rid of the product ???
 
I've done soooooo much with those controllers... audio control with russound, xantech and hifi2, extensive sprinklers systems (500+ lines of codes), blinds and drapes control (50+ relays control), 100+ HLC devices projects with many automation controls, crestron and lutron lighting integration, pool and spa temperature and pump control, 30 thermostats project, fail safe garage and gate controls with notifications of errors and automatic closing in case of leaving with the garage or gate open... I even did a cat food dispenser and chicken coop heating control and entry/exit gate control for chikens ! I mean, that thing NEVER EVER fails. It simply works.
 
I've install over 60 of them since the past 15 years including OnQ and Aegis... It IS an incradible product, old, but rock solid. For sure it is not the most reactive product as it uses a slow processor but man, I can do everything with that thing, I've programmed so many things and have got such high specific demands that I've been able to acheive with the omni line...
 
But since leviton got the line, we got nothing more than horrible service, we even got custom duties charges for a REPAIR of an op2 and hifi2... we wait sometime 40 minutes on the phone to talk with someone that all he seems to want is to get out of the office to get a beer, he simply read trouble shooting manual procedures and that is about it... before we had SUPERB support from HAI directly, we could talk to engineers, repairs were handled quickly, no custom duties charged and we could pay with a credit card... now leviton doesn't even accept credit card payment !!! we need to do wire transfers with extra fees... it's leviton and they can't even bother get our payment by credit card... horrible support...
 
No update whatsoever since 2017 on PC Access, no update on the mobile app, no update on the touch panel (that cannot even recall scene from their own HLC), no support for other third party devices like lutron caseta, heck, leviton did not even bother to integrate their own wifi lighting dimmers the omni line says a lot... they just don't care and I feel they just wanted to get HAI out of the way.  
 
I've participated in the v3.0 beta testing team of PC Access, it's been a blast to participate to the evolution of v2 to v3... and now it just diying... we have so many customer who are using these wonderful systems, each tailored to their request, things I would NEVER be able to do with a DSC or regular alarm system...
 
This just sucks... 

 

[HogarDigital]

Just share the same opinion, all the comments you said happened in my mind also.
So BAD Leviton came just to #%$/$#&% the great Omni Controllers

 

[kurtmccaslin]

Clearly Leviton made a poor decision to buy HAI.   I am sure that they lost money on the deal.   I am also sure that they had big plans when they bought it, but were unable to successfully execute those plans.  
 
I too have orphaned installations now, and am very disappointed.   
 
My wish is that the prior management of HAI would somehow get their IP back and resurrect this once innovative company.   I can only hope...

 

[ano]

Clearly Leviton made a poor decision to buy HAI. 

That maybe isn't true. One company buying another and then shutting it down in a few years is so common I've lost count recently. Years ago I was working for a small company, very successful, that got purchased by a bigger company, and exactly a year later, the owner company shut it down and laid everyone off. It happens lots for many different reasons.  If Leviton had not purchased HAI, you are assuming HAI would be around today happily making Omni systems, but I doubt that is the case. Leviton was likely HAI's last chance to survive and extended their life a few years.
 
Leviton is not the problem, and them buying HAI wasn't a mistake. They likely gained IP, possibly some valuable employees, and a connection to all the people that have HAI systems.  For what they paid, it likely worked out even if they discontinued all the current HAI products.
 
The real problem is the business model of selling home automation equipment at relatively low profit margins, at a time of decreasing demand and increased competition. When you buy HAI hardware from Leviton your buying just that, hardware, no support, so services, no continuous revenue to support future developments. Dealers would make money on installation and future support but there were not giant profits going toward the hardware maker.
 
Another problem, which maybe Leviton didn't fully realize when buying HAI, was HAI was a good hardware company but they were a lousy software company. Today's products are 95% software and 5% hardware. HAI was just never a great software company. Their software was 10- 20 years behind the times. They were designing Windows 95 products during the time of Windows 10.
 
The sad part for us is that times have changed in home automation, just like in so many other areas.  This discontinuing of the Omni line is just the result of that. It is not Leviton's or HAI's fault. There is money at the top-end for the Control4's of the world, but its not clear where the home automation play is at the mid and lower-end. It is still getting worked out.

 

[sjht]

So what are all of you now going to sell to new customers? SJ

 

[heffneil]

I guess elk is the future replacement? There is Honeywell or the dsc I think is the other name but I don’t know if they have the automation piece.

 

[jeditekunum]

Advanced DIY consumer here.
 
Elk is getting rusty too. Decided against it myself. Self-installed Loxone in new build last year before they cut off DIYers. More "modern" than most although that isn't saying much. They are now installer-only and probably desperate for partners. I've got mixed feelings about it and did NOT buy into their entire ecosystem. Just have the main controller and a DMX extension. Since I'm capable (both hardware and software-wise) I will, over time, phase it out with my own hardware and software.
 
When I researched this over the last couple of years I didn't see any automation with Honeywell or DSC offerings. DSC is actually making it harder to integrate into automation. The craze these days is propriety intelligent buses so there is no way for 3rd party to tap into their ecosystem. Interlogix has gone that way too.
 
Like so many things there is no "money" in mid to low-end systems. There is no R&D investment of any consequence anymore (and I'd say that also holds true for high-end). The market is being flooded by cheap one-trick-pony products from China. Possibly integrated with Amazon Alexa, Google Home, or Apple HomeKit. All DIY of course. IMO all junk but many people won't pay more for anything better.

 

[heffneil]

Its a shame Leviton didnt capitalize on fheir very pricey switches. Instead you can get their WIFI switches and dont need any controller. Of course if youre not on the internet you cant control them remotely or timed. I really liked the Omni pro and maybe a Chinese knock off will come out. Besides light control (retrofit or simple and easy) how do you do water sensing and other inputs. Its depressing for sure.

If you have the WIFI switches from Leviton its here a room controller? I dont think so?
More depressing as I think about it.

 

[Alezis]

So what are all of you now going to sell to new customers? SJ

 
For our part, the question is, what the hell are we going to do when a omni controller will fail ? how can you fix a 50+ relay blind and drape control system to a customer when his omni will fail ? same goes with a 30 thermostat house control with omnistat and omni pro II... I mean this is BIG BIG money to replace all of this... that is a really frighning thought when you think about it...
 
Fortunately, out of the 15+ years I've been doing this, the only failed HAI systems I've seen were due to lightning strikes. Never got, up to now, a defective omni controller...
 
ELK M1 is a possibility of replacement but again, this is an old controller, expensive, a bit more open to third party devices but has way less programming capabilities. I wouldn't have enough programming space to replace that 50+ relay drape and blind control with an M1... 
 
I mean, just take for example garage door control. It is not just to activate and pulse a relay for 1 second... When I do it, I monitor if the door is close or open, if the alarm is armed or disarmed. Then when you execute the command to open or close, I need to block any other incoming command from the user for the duration of the opening or closing of the garage door because some garage door openers will stop the door if you press the open/close button while it is currently opening or closing and some other will go the opposite way.
 
When the user is not at home, if he press "open", "open", "open" even though you explained to him to only press once, if you don't have the proper logic in the control system, what do you think happend ? the door get stuck open 1 feet open, or get closed again and then the customer calls you and say "your automation system doesn't work, come fix this"...
 
This is why I learned to program such a simple thing as a garage door opener that will take 14 lines of programming code with variables. Sometime even more than 14 lines of code because I've got request to automaticly close garage doors AFTER customer is leaving the property and closing his front gate. Send notification messages that the door has been closed properly and then the system got armed properly or if something is blocking the garage door, warn user that the system did try to close the door but was not able to perform the task. This is complicated and extensive programming that I was able to do with omni controllers...
 
A DSC or a honneywell security system won't do any of this besides getting them tied to an automation controller like crestron and the likes...
 
Think how many line of code I was required to do with a 50+ relay drape and blind control... that is insane ! At the time, the blind and drape controllers were costing 8000$... 8000$... to get an RS232 interface... Instead, we did it for 4500$, putting money in our pocket instead of sending money to a blind and drape controller company... and now it comes bitting us back...
 
urgh...

 

[heffneil]

I wonder if Leviton would sell the technology and if you could replicate them. Might be worth it.

 

[jeditekunum]

I mean, just take for example garage door control. 

 
 
This is an example that no longer requires a custom automation solution. We installed LiftMaster (8500) openers in our new build. They are myQ systems (ie proprietary wired and wireless protocols) so a simple internet gateway add-on ties it to a cloud service (free) that then talks to their smartphone app. Can see the state of each door (and when it last moved) as well as control. People have figured out how to talk to the cloud service for integration into automation systems.
 
Our ClimateMaster geothermal system is the same kind of setup. All proprietary and a cloud-based interface (which is actually EcoBee).
 
I don't like the cloud approach but vendors aren't giving any choice.
 
This is definitely the trend - highly proprietary systems that advertise "smart" capabilities meaning you have to use their cloud service and their apps. So smart is entirely as THEY define it. Which may, or may not, include a few integrations like Alexa. Any custom integration with something else is purely by chance and reverse engineering.

 

[Alezis]

This is an example that no longer requires a custom automation solution. We installed LiftMaster (8500) openers in our new build. They are myQ systems (ie proprietary wired and wireless protocols) so a simple internet gateway add-on ties it to a cloud service (free) that then talks to their smartphone app. Can see the state of each door (and when it last moved) as well as control. People have figured out how to talk to the cloud service for integration into automation systems.
 
Our ClimateMaster geothermal system is the same kind of setup. All proprietary and a cloud-based interface (which is actually EcoBee).
 
I don't like the cloud approach but vendors aren't giving any choice.
 
This is definitely the trend - highly proprietary systems that advertise "smart" capabilities meaning you have to use their cloud service and their apps. So smart is entirely as THEY define it. Which may, or may not, include a few integrations like Alexa. Any custom integration with something else is purely by chance and reverse engineering.

 
But still, customer can open their garage door and trip the security system, need to have two application, disarm system first then open the garage door... This is what I did like with the omni, be able to tie everything together so nothing trips nothing, if you try to open the garage door while the alarm is armed I could either disarm automatically or send a message to disarm first to prevent a false alarm.
 
With those freakn cloud wifi bridge, you can't do any of this...
 
The climate control with 30 omni thermostat is for radiant floors and air conditionning, STADARD thermost with a control wire that again are tied with the security system, when away, when home, at night, when sun is in a particular area, close the drapes and adjust temperature... now it does requires extensive programming with the integration of different brands that do not talk to each other easily... omni, no problem...
 
Trend is useless way of making product evolve in my opinion... curved screen trend is totally useless, trend of removing headphone jacks on mobile phone is ridiculous, trend of cloud thing... It's not that I do not want to evolve, it's the simplicity. flat screen devices (no complicated screen protectors), simple 1/8 headphone jacks that works, do not require adapters, battery headphones, bluetooth lag... it just works, leave it... nope, we need to complicate things by making everything more complicated and less convenient
 
The day those company decide they do not support you anymore, you are screwed... HAI, open a port on your router and it works...
 
Anyway, I HATE this cloud crap or nest stuff sooo much, now nest being google, all module drivers need to be updated, some are not supported anymore and that is a relatively recent "concept" and still already getting screw up by google...
 
But that is my opinion and experience with omni controllers...

 

[heffneil]

Can you set a time the door will close if it is left open with the independent units? The alarm thing is a problem.

 

[cobra]

 
For our part, the question is, what the hell are we going to do when a omni controller will fail ? how can you fix a 50+ relay blind and drape control system to a customer when his omni will fail ? same goes with a 30 thermostat house control with omnistat and omni pro II... I mean this is BIG BIG money to replace all of this... that is a really frighning thought when you think about it...

At least Leviton has said repair and warranty will continue. But I havent seen how long repairs will be offered. Leviton is big enough that it may be quite a while. (Doesnt help with the issues shipping across the border though... )