AlarmRelay and OmniPro II - Which Radio

[ano]

I decided to switch my monitoring from Next Alarm to Alarm Relay.  I'm going to be using just cellular as it seems to be the most reliable and inexpensive option.  In speaking with them they say they have two radios that will work with the OmniPro II, one designed by Telit and one from a second company.  They say the Telit option is a bit cheaper per month to monitor, but they have had some cases where it just didn't work with the Omni. A second radio has always worked, but its a bit more to monitor. 
 
I was told they work with several vendors to supply equipment and actual connectivity, with some having different prices depending on the contract that Alarm Relay worked out with them.
 
In any case, for those with Alarm Relay and an OmniPro II, what radio are you using and did it work right away?  They say this is not an issue with reliability, its just combinations work and some don't, and if it doesn't work I can send it back for the other version.

 

[Del91574]

If you're buying the unit, I'd suggest uplink. Without knowing what's being put on the plate, the decision is harder. Uplink has the benefit of being 100% passthru and can either be a direct IP port or dialer emulation to the CS itself.
 
Otherwise, you need to know the 3rd party vendor as not all are created equal, and if you choose to change services again, the issue will be if the CS has a dealer account and TCP/IP port from the cell vendor.

 

[drvnbysound]

I assisted with setup of an OPII and a TG-1Express a few weeks ago. No issues. Having said that, I'm certain that there may be better options out there. I went solely on Alarm Relays initial recommendation to me and didn't have time to research a ton of alternatives at the time.
 
Having said that, DEL, could to explain a bit more about what you meant regarding the Uplink and that it can be a direct IP port to the CS?

 

[ano]

The one they recommended was this one: http://alarmrelay.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/IPDataTel-CDMA-BAT-Installation-Guide-V3.pdf
Not being an expert on these it doesn't sound like a "TG-1Express" or a "Uplink."  They give you 30 days to change your mind if you are not happy.
 
The problem I see is that you are at the mercy of Alarm Relay's contract negotiation's with third-party providers.  If that changes, you are out-of-luck, and then you need to buy a new radio for whomever is in favor at the time.
 
Also, this unit can "emulate a keyboard" which I'm assuming doesn't work with the OmniPro II anyway. But it does support turning the alarm on and off via keyswitch.  Is that something I even need to hook up?  I can control the alarm remotely with SnapLink and Space.
 
Looks like the IPDataTel is Verizon and the TG-1Express is AT&T.  I have fair AT&T and T-Mobile coverage here and better Verizon so that is maybe why they went this route.  I got a quote from another monitoring company and they also recommended a Verizon radio. 

 

[drvnbysound]

There is a TG-1Express 4G CDMA model as well. I sourced it separately (cheaper) and had it activated through Alarm Relay.
 
For more information on the TG-1 Express:
http://www.telguard.com/home/Products/Residential/TG1Express
 
Note the left side of the page under the product picture; the heading of the first box mentions ATT LTE networks, and the one below it mentions CDMA for Verizon.
 
I've heard of IPDataTel before but haven't used any of their products yet myself. Looks like the capabilities of the two devices is similar... essentially converting the cellular signal into a POTS-like connection for the OPII board to "dial out".

 

[ano]

There is a TG-1Express 4G CDMA model as well. I sourced it separately (cheaper) and had it activated through Alarm Relay.

I thought about buying it on eBay, but you always have the risk of it not working, and having AlarmRelay blame it on the equipment, and you, the customer, gets stuck in the middle.  The price was only $20 more from AlarmRelay, and I can exchange it for another brand if it doesn't work.

 

[Del91574]

They have a private labelled IPdatatel BAT. Not a UL listed device, so you figure out what the difference is and if you feel warm and fuzzy using it.
It will not interface to a non-big 3 panel, as it's intended to be connected to the panel data bus. It will facilitate the keyswitch wiring, however it requires more conductors to provide feedback as to armed state (most contemporaries use an O/C report to do this).
 
It's VZW network, so if you don't have service, you're SOL and have to go TCP/IP
 
Telular is a direct port to the CS from Telular. The CS must be a 3rd party provider from Telular to get the signals.
 
Uplink can be ported to the CS if they have a compatible IP receiver and provide the appropriate data, otherwise it's DTMF emulation at the CS. Still only adds about 10-15 seconds over a direct port, which is really trivial overall.
 
Basically, that means no matter who the device is, they receive the data from the communicator. How that data gets to the CS varies. Either it can emulate a panel on a POTS line or it can go straight into a IP CS receiver. There's no perfect scenario here. It comes down to the path and how the CS bills and what sort of signals are being passed through and whether or not you can go to a generic IP receiver, if the CS has one, or if they're locked in via a service provider porting the data direct to their receiver and automation software.

 

[ano]

They have a private labelled IPdatatel BAT. Not a UL listed device, so you figure out what the difference is and if you feel warm and fuzzy using it.
It will not interface to a non-big 3 panel, as it's intended to be connected to the panel data bus. It will facilitate the keyswitch wiring, however it requires more conductors to provide feedback as to armed state (most contemporaries use an O/C report to do this).
 
It's VZW network, so if you don't have service, you're SOL and have to go TCP/IP
 
Telular is a direct port to the CS from Telular. The CS must be a 3rd party provider from Telular to get the signals.
 
Uplink can be ported to the CS if they have a compatible IP receiver and provide the appropriate data, otherwise it's DTMF emulation at the CS. Still only adds about 10-15 seconds over a direct port, which is really trivial overall.
 
Basically, that means no matter who the device is, they receive the data from the communicator. How that data gets to the CS varies. Either it can emulate a panel on a POTS line or it can go straight into a IP CS receiver. There's no perfect scenario here. It comes down to the path and how the CS bills and what sort of signals are being passed through and whether or not you can go to a generic IP receiver, if the CS has one, or if they're locked in via a service provider porting the data direct to their receiver and automation software.

No doubt the alarm monitoring business, is in the end like any other.  Its more about cost and offering competitive services, than 100% UL compliance for residential alarms, which I'm sure rarely if ever occurs. Its clear, since all the radios that Alarm Relay installs are not UL listed for residential customers, then its not a big concern for them, and they tend to be MORE reputable than most alarm monitoring companies out there.  No doubt having a cheap radio that can be swapped out should their third-party change is more important than requiring a universal radio that might be UL listed and probably costs triple the cost.
 
I don't plan to enable IP monitoring, even if the radio supports it. Cellular only.  And yes, Verizon coverage has to be in the area, or there wouldn't much reason to use it.

 

[drvnbysound]

FWIW, the TG-1 Express has a UL Certificate of Compliance. It's available on the product page I linked above.

 

[ano]

FWIW, the TG-1 Express has a UL Certificate of Compliance. It's available on the product page I linked above.

UL Listing isn't a requirement. It just needs to be reliable.

 

[drvnbysound]

Understood. I mainly wanted to note that for others who may read this post in the future

 

[Del91574]

No doubt the alarm monitoring business, is in the end like any other.  Its more about cost and offering competitive services, than 100% UL compliance for residential alarms, which I'm sure rarely if ever occurs. Its clear, since all the radios that Alarm Relay installs are not UL listed for residential customers, then its not a big concern for them, and they tend to be MORE reputable than most alarm monitoring companies out there.  No doubt having a cheap radio that can be swapped out should their third-party change is more important than requiring a universal radio that might be UL listed and probably costs triple the cost.
 
I don't plan to enable IP monitoring, even if the radio supports it. Cellular only.  And yes, Verizon coverage has to be in the area, or there wouldn't much reason to use it.

You're confusing what UL listing is when it comes to a monitoring path. Part of the reason why the whole eyezon product isn't UL and the horror stories that go along with it (they started upgrading servers and software and broke their entire system for weeks/months).
 
UL certificated installation is NOT required for the system, yet the components are required to be UL listed for their purpose....same reason why you can't buy a Chinese wifi based alarm system on Ebay and expect your insurer to cover you when it fails or doesn't perform as it's real counterpart does. Same reason why there's guys out there with a CS receiver in their garage with a handful of phone lines installed and calling themselves a central station until they get sued or the insurer doesn't allow them to "monitor" a system. There are plenty of mom and pop shops that work like this.
 
I've dealt with many underwriters on this exact scenario after an event, loss, alarm, whatever you want to call it. Never saw a case go positive for someone who installed a non-listed device or component and usually ends up in summary judgement for the limitation of liability for the provider of the monitoring services.

 

[ano]

I'm not here to debate the merits of UL listing residential monitoring.  AlarmRelay has an A+ rating with the BBB and not a single complaint "product service."  Not bad for such a large company. The system will also test daily, so if there is a problem, I'll know soon enough. If all else fails, I have homeowners insurance. The discount I get for a monitored alarm is so small, I don't even bother with that discount.

 

[Del91574]

I'm not here to debate the merits of UL listing residential monitoring.  AlarmRelay has an A+ rating with the BBB and not a single complaint "product service."  Not bad for such a large company. The system will also test daily, so if there is a problem, I'll know soon enough. If all else fails, I have homeowners insurance. The discount I get for a monitored alarm is so small, I don't even bother with that discount.

I'm not debating, but for others that see certain products as equivalent DIY solution when they aren't apples to apples. BBB listing or rating is a VERY misleading item for consumers to base decisions on. Every item the IPdatatel unit does, their contemporaries can do or offer, their product is not unique with the exception of connecting to the data bus directly to allow a UI. Look at what communications route AR put in writing for their "recommended" vs. what may work. That is a key bit of information here.
 
AR isn't a "large company" or even moderate sized by any stretch and BBB doesn't truly mean what people believe it to when they state they are BBB listed. The companies PAY for that listing and in actuality all it does mean is there is an avenue for complaints and resolution. 3 reviews since 2009 and nothing for products or service issues wouldn't lead me to believe they are stellar by any stretch. UL means there are standards that must be met, from redundancies and technologies all the way to response times from the time the signal hits the receiver and then subsequent automation and down to the operator action.

The takeaway here is that the CS itself can be UL, but the means for the DIY or end user to get the signals, while permissible may not be UL, it's a case of caveat emptor and opens up additional items that must be considered. That's why I pointed out all the issues with Envisalink. Myself and another person were approached by them about 10 years back to start marketing the product.....their back end has issues. If the functionality only affects whether or not your new Andpod Nexium 7S can connect to the panel and you can bypass Timmy's window or get a text when he sneaks out, that's one thing, but putting all the eggs in that basket for reporting is something that must be
considered.
 
Here's a piece of reading as to why I bring these things up:
http://www.securitysales.com/article/simplisafe_diy_security_system_investigation_yields_disturbing_results/

 

[ano]

Here's a piece of reading as to why I bring these things up:
http://www.securitysales.com/article/simplisafe_diy_security_system_investigation_yields_disturbing_results/

So I have a friend that lives in an apartment, wants to spend $400 max. for an installed system, $15 max. for monitoring.  Maybe you can recommend some installers that can do that for them?
 
I've never seen the SimpliSafe but after investigating more, it seem like a good system.
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/26597331/andy-will-it-work-simplisafe
 
After reading your article and the other, I'd definitely recommend it now. 
 
Thanks for the information on SimpliSafe.