110V Smokes

abernut

Member
We have reached the electrical part of our build. I was walking around ensuring that the electrician wired a neutral to each switch. I noticed that he had 4 wire cords labeled SMOKE throughout the house. I told him I was going to run the smokes back to my panel. He said he had to wire them up to the 110 and I could run separate ones if I wanted to use low voltage.

I don't remember seeing that in my research.

Can any one weigh in

Thanks
 
The same concern has come up a few times here on the forum.
 
Personally I left the 120VAC contractor installed smoke detectors and installed my own smoke / CO detectors. 
 
I am thinking that the installation of the 120VAC smokes is relating to local building codes.; which typically doesn't include low voltage smoke detector wiring.
 
I over did it a bit by zoning my smoke/CO installation which was sort of a PITA to do.
 
I do have a few of mine adjacent near the contractor installed smokes and it doesn't really look too cluttered.
 
I did find this article relating to smokes:  (this contradicts what I wrote above sort of)

 
Smoke detectors (alarms) are installed in single-family dwellings to provide early warning of a fire. Their installation is required by building codes in many municipalities and by many fire departments. National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) 72, the National Fire Alarm Code, provides guidance for the proper selection, installation, operation, testing and maintenance of smoke detector (alarm) systems. It is, therefore, imperative that we understand the operation of the listed fire alarm equipment, including its installation instructions to accomplish this very important task of helping to safe guard a family from the ravages of fire.
There are two basic methods of providing fire protection in dwellings. The first is the household fire warning system panel, commonly called the fire alarm panel. Fire alarm panels are installed as a complete system with notification appliances (horns, speakers and flashing strobe lights) and initiating devices (heat detectors, smoke detectors and pull stations).
Fire alarm panel systems are usually installed in larger dwellings or where a more sophisticated fire alarm warning system is desired. Residential-grade panels are specifically listed for household use and should not be used in commercial or industrial installations. The local fire department and the municipal inspection authority must be notified of the installation of the fire alarm system and a permit obtained, where applicable.
The second basic method of fire protection in a dwelling involves the installation of single- or multiple-station alarm devices (smoke or heat alarms) not incorporated into a fire alarm system.
A single-station alarm device is an assembly that incorporates the detection device, the control equipment and an alarm notification device into one unit. Single-station alarm devices are normally installed as stand-alone devices and do not have provisions for interconnection to other single-station devices.
A multiple-station alarm device is a single-station device that has been designed to be interconnected to one or more additional alarm devices so that the actuation of one device will cause all other interconnected devices to sound a similar alarm.
Single- or multiple-station alarm devices are operated from a power supply located within the device, such as a battery; from a power source located at the point of connection for the alarm device (a 120-volt branch circuit); or from both a 120-volt branch circuit with battery backup.
The normal power source connection for these alarm devices is a non-switched branch circuit located in the protected area.
NFPA 72, the National Fire Alarm Code, requires smoke detectors (alarms) to be installed in all sleeping rooms of the dwelling (except in existing dwellings not previously wired for smoke detection). Smoke detectors (alarms) are also required to be located outside of each separate sleeping area, such as in the hallway outside the bedrooms, and on each story of a multi-story dwelling.
For example, if the bedrooms are located on the second floor of a dwelling, a smoke detector (alarm) must be located on the first floor at or near the base of the stairs leading up to the bedroom area.
Most municipalities require multiple smoke alarms in a dwelling to be interconnected and manufacturers will limit the number of devices that can be connected together in their installation instructions. NFPA 72 limits the number of interconnections to no more than 18 initiating devices (smoke or heat alarm devices or pull stations), of which no more than 12 can be smoke alarms.
Interconnected devices require three conductors plus an equipment grounding conductor: a black hot conductor, a white neutral conductor, a red or orange interconnection conductor plus the green or bare equipment grounding conductor.
The interconnection conductor causes all of the connected smoke alarms to signal an alarm when one device senses smoke, thus providing early warning of smoke throughout the entire dwelling. The total length of the interconnecting conductor cannot exceed 1,000 feet.
Since the branch circuit supplying the smoke alarms also powers the interconnecting conductor, Section 300.3(B) requires all four of the conductors in the smoke alarm circuit to be run in the same cable or raceway.
Smoke alarm manufacturers require all interconnected devices to be powered from the same branch circuit. Section 210.12(B) of 2002 National Electrical Code (NEC) now requires the entire branch circuit supplying outlets in a dwelling unit bedroom to be protected by an arc fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) device.
Since 120-volt smoke alarm devices are considered to be outlets and at least one smoke alarm is required in each bedroom, the branch circuit supplying the smoke alarms must be protected by an AFCI device. If a separate circuit were run to the smoke alarms, then an additional arc fault device would be required.
Careful layout and design of the smoke detection circuits in dwellings will provide the best possible fire protection and will comply with the revised requirements in the 2002 NEC. EC
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/installing-smoke-detectors-alarms
 
Agree, however the article cited only provides half the information.
 
Either HV or LV system smokes are acceptable to meet code (all enforced occupancy codes and NEC) however the only reason why LV units would not be allowed or accepted is strictly a local code enforcement issue, which really stems from the AHJ's wanting to ensure that the smokes remain functional if the FACP is disabled or put out of service for whatever reason.
 
Usually most EC's insist on wiring the HV smokes as it's part of the bid and they're also responsible to the builder to ensure the structure gets a C of O.
 
I've read that you can replace one of the 110V smoke detectors with one that can trigger the low voltage alarm system, when the line voltage smokes sound.
 
But it's easier (and strictly to code) to duplicate detectors, low voltage located near line voltage.  2 systems.
 
Sandpiper explains in great detail that using the line voltage smoke detector with a relay to signal the alarm panel is against code, but it can be done:
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/21106-interconnect-120vac-smokes-with-alarm-panel/
 
These smokes with relays are not 'listed' for this purpose.
 
I'm not going to touch what is possible (though a poor idea) vs. what is acceptable and won't cause inherent issues.

If line voltage units are installed for the C of O, then you really don't need to mirror them, you can opt to do spot detection in the "former" minimum code locations of one on each floor...that would be my recommendation if you don't want to get involved with the research and speaking to an AHJ regarding the replacement of the line units for LV and being compliant.
 
Just to be clear, I would never recommend replacing the line voltage detectors with low voltage, in a home, with a DIY alarm panel.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, DEL, but wouldn't replacing one of the line voltage detectors with another line voltage detector that has a relay (GE 350), be a viable solution?  I have a feeling I'm missing something here.
 
Bad ideas are bad ideas.
 
It introduces a whole other series of items to consider....
 
Look at the second paragraph http://utcfssecurityproducts.com/ProductsAndServices/Site%20Assets/15814C_320A_350_inin_.pdf
 
Then, you're going to be looking at replacing ALL the detectors (they are installed as an assembly, not as ancillary equipment to other smoke detectors). If an AHJ is going to forbid the installation of LV units to meet code, then going against the installation instructions is definitely an issue.
 
Without getting into the whole scope of application and products on the market and why/how they exist and the listings...I'll just state they are intended for a far different application where other equipment is satisfying the code requirement and these sorts of units are for ancillary notification and monitoring, they're never allowed to dump a building.
 
In the OP's case, there is no legal standpoint why LV detectors, properly installed with tandem ring and appropriate battery backup do not meet or exceed code requirements that would govern a HV installation, the only reason why they would not be allowed is strictly a local code covenant or ill-informed AHJ.
 
Or a electrician that learned to do things by rote, and assumes that code requires that smokes MUST be wired to 110 because that's the way he was taught.
 
If it's going to be a major issue, CALL the AHJ and get a definitive answer.  If you're in a jurisdiction that has plenty of new high-end homes, the AHJ should be very informed about LV smokes, home automation, etc.
 
Thank you both.

I'm curious why it's not listed. Is it liability?

In this case, a pro such as you, DEL would never dream of using an unlisted item, for an install. You can't.

But as DIY - what exactly is the harm, in this case? I'm really asking, it's not rhetorical.
 
Not many DIYers can pull of a pro-level install, to make LV smokes bulletproof. That's the reason I would never recommend it.
 
Just an FYI which I am currently sorting out. 
 
Over the last few days in FL reviewing house insurance (versus the wind and flood insurance); insurance agent recended my alarm discount stating something about my smokes there not connected to central station monitoring.  I have smokes there in just about every room of the house but have no smokes connected to the Alarm panel.
 
Is this some new rule in Florida?  Noticed that the wind and flood insurance doesn't cover much anymore and the rates are even higher than previous years.
 
Neurorad said:
Thank you both.

I'm curious why it's not listed. Is it liability?

In this case, a pro such as you, DEL would never dream of using an unlisted item, for an install. You can't.

But as DIY - what exactly is the harm, in this case? I'm really asking, it's not rhetorical.
 
Once an item is not listed, that right off the bat makes it a non-compliant article for code requirements..."all devices must be listed for their purposes {sic}". I wouldn't want to be the one to argue with an insurer or underwriter as to whether or not my coverage for a loss is going to be null because of a $10 relay I chose to install vs. system smokes off the bat. Have a large enough loss, it's not about the insurance you have, it's about what is or is not going to be covered and to what extent, it's an ugly scene.
 
@Pete, we have underwriters and companies here that require FA or even flood/temp detection on any system that is installed, I can't say they've required a HO to install a system, however I've heard that some properties are uninsurable based on overall potential loss (a property value well out of my economic means) without a system that has basic protection. The name of the game is what you as a HO can do to mitigate their exposure and potential loss.
 
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